Extract from the then Sun editor's evidence to the House of Commons culture select committee on 11 March 2003
(Ms Wade) On the first question what you are talking about is public interest, and especially when I was editor of the News of the World, and obviously I have only been editor of the Sun for a short time but I am sure it will come up, emotive words like "subterfuge" and "entrapment" are used in the case especially of News of the World investigations.
All those things you have mentioned like private detectives and listening devices and so on come under those two umbrellas.
If I give you one example, and we are talking about ordinary people here and I will keep it to that in the context of the committee, on a council estate in Birmingham there was a woman that had four daughters all under the age of 16, and we were told she was selling her daughters to local, if you like, paedophiles, because they were well under the age of 16, as I explained, so we were called to look at this story and we did not know whether it was true or not.
If you can imagine how many stories come to the News of the World day in day out, every single one has to be true, so to prove that story we used a listening device. We sent somebody in who had a listening device on them, and the woman who was selling her daughters did not know that.
The reporter came out, rang me and said, "This story is true. It is absolutely horrendous and I have not seen anything like it". It was a Tuesday afternoon; we immediately called the police; we got her arrested; we got the children protected; all the agencies were called in; and the thought of even publishing that story did not come into our heads – this was a Tuesday, and it was the News of the World.
The fact is that subterfuge was used, the man got in contact with the woman on the estate and said he had been put in touch by a local paedophile and he heard that he had his daughters too – that was subterfuge. He is a reporter but he did not declare he was a reporter. He needed to get into the house and the listening device was then used, and sometimes that is necessary. So to answer your question, yes, but if you want me to sit here and go through all of the situations where that happens, it would be ridiculous. The most important thing is that it is only ever used in the public interest in the sense of what that means.
467. (Chris Bryant MP) And on the element of whether you ever pay the police for information?
(Ms Wade) We have paid the police for information in the past.
468. (Chris Bryant MP) And will you do it in the future?
(Ms Wade) It depends –
(Mr Coulson) We operate within the code and within the law and if there is a clear public interest then we will. The same holds for private detectives, subterfuge, a video bag – whatever you want to talk about.
469. (Chris Bryant MP) It is illegal for police officers to receive payments.
(Mr Coulson) No. I just said, within the law.
All those things you have mentioned like private detectives and listening devices and so on come under those two umbrellas.
If I give you one example, and we are talking about ordinary people here and I will keep it to that in the context of the committee, on a council estate in Birmingham there was a woman that had four daughters all under the age of 16, and we were told she was selling her daughters to local, if you like, paedophiles, because they were well under the age of 16, as I explained, so we were called to look at this story and we did not know whether it was true or not.
If you can imagine how many stories come to the News of the World day in day out, every single one has to be true, so to prove that story we used a listening device. We sent somebody in who had a listening device on them, and the woman who was selling her daughters did not know that.
The reporter came out, rang me and said, "This story is true. It is absolutely horrendous and I have not seen anything like it". It was a Tuesday afternoon; we immediately called the police; we got her arrested; we got the children protected; all the agencies were called in; and the thought of even publishing that story did not come into our heads – this was a Tuesday, and it was the News of the World.
The fact is that subterfuge was used, the man got in contact with the woman on the estate and said he had been put in touch by a local paedophile and he heard that he had his daughters too – that was subterfuge. He is a reporter but he did not declare he was a reporter. He needed to get into the house and the listening device was then used, and sometimes that is necessary. So to answer your question, yes, but if you want me to sit here and go through all of the situations where that happens, it would be ridiculous. The most important thing is that it is only ever used in the public interest in the sense of what that means.
467. (Chris Bryant MP) And on the element of whether you ever pay the police for information?
(Ms Wade) We have paid the police for information in the past.
468. (Chris Bryant MP) And will you do it in the future?
(Ms Wade) It depends –
(Mr Coulson) We operate within the code and within the law and if there is a clear public interest then we will. The same holds for private detectives, subterfuge, a video bag – whatever you want to talk about.
469. (Chris Bryant MP) It is illegal for police officers to receive payments.
(Mr Coulson) No. I just said, within the law.
